Georges St. Pierre talks Jake Shields, says he doesn't know if he will fight Anderson Silva


69 Comments

  1. Profile photo of Osnizzle

    Osnizzle

    March 5, 2011 at 8:26 am

    I dont think Gsp vs Silva will ever happen while its relevant if ever.

  2. Profile photo of 808scrappah

    808scrappah

    March 5, 2011 at 8:55 am

    GSP is such a nice, humble guy and an great champion (imo top 3 p4p), but it seems like he doesnt have the heart to fight AS. You can make all the excuses about how he has to gain the right amount of muscle and maintain the speed at a heavier weight. You think BJ Penn ever made excuses about weight, he fought anybody with a “win or lose i am going to challenge myself” attitude. Nobody even credits bj penn for fighting guys way out of his weight class. All they see are his losses. GSP outweighed BJ by 30 pounds and BJ still had the heart to fight him. C’mon champ, stop making excuses!!!

  3. Profile photo of ckapps

    ckapps

    March 5, 2011 at 9:39 am

    And thats why GSP is still champ and Bj’s not.

    I think George knows what he’s talking about when he talks about gaining the right weight. What the hell do you know?

  4. Profile photo of 808scrappah

    808scrappah

    March 5, 2011 at 10:56 am

    i meant no disrespect towards GSP, obviously you didnt get my point. I think GSP relies “too” much on gameplans instead of just taking chances. I was just using Penn as an example of how he wasnt ever scared of putting his legacy on the line, he was always willing to fight anybody great regardless of the weight class, win or lose, always taking high risk chances. It almost seems like GSP doesnt want to leave his comfort zone, in this case the ww division.

  5. Profile photo of UnderdogGreatness

    UnderdogGreatness

    March 5, 2011 at 11:10 am

    GSP wants no part of A.S, period.

  6. Profile photo of theashark

    theashark

    March 5, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    right on about bj, he even fought lyoto machida, and landed some good shots, people say bj has no heart because he fades in the later rounds,
    he fades because of bad cardio and not lack of heart

  7. Profile photo of Chocolat

    Chocolat

    March 5, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    I’d like to see GSP take the fight, but honestly he didn’t make it as far as he did just taking chances, and I don’t see what it would benefit him to start doing so now. And I didn’t see Anderson in a rush to challenge Rua.

  8. Profile photo of postmortem

    postmortem

    March 5, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    i might be reading too much into this it seems out of respect for his current opponent he refuses to talk about a potential fight with silva if gsp wins lets see what he has to say then

  9. Profile photo of Riddle-jitsu

    Riddle-jitsu

    March 5, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    To me if gsp gets pressured into thus fight hes already lost it mentally its clear he wants no part of being in there with anderson. It will be gsp matt hughes 1…. part 2… only with anderson silva ….. and not matt hughes…. ya get me :-{

  10. Profile photo of crocopcullen

    crocopcullen

    March 5, 2011 at 5:13 pm

    correct. st pierre looks nervous and uneasy when people mention him fighting anderson. i think anderson would destroy him. he’s simply too good.

  11. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    wants no part of the spider.. can you blame him?? he TAPPED to strikes by serra.. GSP fan boys keep harping on his wrestling his wrestling go look at every silva fight when he gets taken down its because he just stops sprawling and pulls guard because he trusts his jujitsu (and why not he’s submitted everyone that has taken him down in the octagon) and in the roid sonnen fight he was clearly hurt(and he wanted to submit sonnen a fact the gi and his post fight comments confirm) you can see him motioning to his ribs after the first round but back to the point GSP cannot control silva for 5 rounds without getting caught in something YOU HAVE TO FINISH silva his defensive jujitsu and length makes it hard for him to be submitted and his chin, footwork, elusiveness, and head movement makes it hard for him to be K.O.. on the flip side silva’s other worldly striking, underrated power, cardio, underrated game planning, ability to adapt and underrated offensive jujitsu makes it easy for him to finish a fight at ANY time…. haters going to hate but that doesn’t change the fact that silva is UN-F*CKWITHABLE.. a true specimen born to destroy…. PLEASE ENJOY HIM WHILE WE STILL HAVE HIM BECAUSE ONE DAY HE’LL BE A MERE FABLE WE TELL OUR GRAND KIDS USING ALL TYPES OF HYPERBOLE

  12. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    Nothing against GSP he’s carved out a pretty nice niche for himself(i find it comical that silva gets alot of heat for not finishing 3 fights 2 of which were not his fault but GSP gets a pass because “he’s a game planner”) but i just cant see him beating the spider first off he strikes to set up his take downs silva is a master at using his reach so a few inches of advantage is all he needs the longer GSP stands with silva the more danger he’s putting himself in silva is evolving to the point that all he needs is ONE strike to end a fight.. personally i see the fight playing out like Silva vs. Carlos newton GSP goes for a take down from the outside then BOOM a well timed flying knee put him in lala land and a couple strikes later that’s all she wrote.. do you guys understand why people say the UFC middle weight division is sh*t?? because Anderson Silva made everyone look like sh*t!!

  13. Profile photo of Kings_Of_Metal

    Kings_Of_Metal

    March 5, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    I agree. GSP looks affraid of Anderson Silva cause he knows he could be humiliated by A.silva like Maia was.

    And eventually lose his fans after that fight.

    I think GSP will find excuses to not fight Silva for a while. and THen when Silva will be old , Gsp will accept to fight him ,cause his chances of winning will be better.

    However i like GSP ,he is one of the best, but Silva is way more creative and skilled than him

  14. Profile photo of jsnwht

    jsnwht

    March 5, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    He has stepped in with the best of the best at his weight. GSP has plenty of heart. If he doesn’t fight Silva it will be because he has brains. Silva naturally outweighs GSP by 40 to 60 lbs. You might as well say Silva has no heart for not trying to fight all the biggest heavyweights. Truth be told, Silva is closer to the heavy’s at his natural weight than GSP is to Silva at his.

    GSP’s “problem” is that he is not an idiot. He isn’t going to throw a wrench into one of the greatest MMA careers of all time (his) nor put his health and body at serious risk just because you want to see him fight someone much, much bigger than he is. There is a very good reason that weight classes exist in professional fighting.

    I’d love to see them fight too. And I hope they do. However, I do think GSP would lose b/c the weight would be a big factor in the wrestling. You’re insulting one of the best MMA fighters of all time by claiming he has no heart simply because he won’t submit to your every whim and jump when you say jump.

  15. Profile photo of jsnwht

    jsnwht

    March 5, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    P.S. – If Penn wouldn’t have jumped around in weight so much there is a good chance he could’ve retained more speed, or even gotten faster, through his career at LW and been able to stop Edgar. Yes, Penn has heart… but less brains than GSP as far as discipline and work ethic. And it has hurt him.

  16. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    Anderson is not even challenging GSP.. it the fans putting him on a pedestal as a great white hope.. and shogun is not quick enough to mess with silva.. seriously how much more awesome sh*t does silva have to do to get some damn respect?? the man did capoeira in a cage fight for god’s sake capoeira than mimicked other fighter’s styles IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIGHT.. clowned world class fighters and they just took the embarrassment because they couldn’t do anything about it fought a roided up wrestler while he had a torn cartilage in his ribs and showed the heart of a champ.. ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!

  17. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    reply fail my fault crocop

  18. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    Anderson is not even challenging GSP.. it the fans putting him on a pedestal as a great white hope.. and shogun is not quick enough to mess with silva.. seriously how much more awesome sh*t does silva have to do to get some damn respect?? the man did capoeira in a cage fight for god’s sake capoeira than mimicked other fighter’s styles.. clowned world class fighters and they just took the embarrassment because they couldn’t do anything about it fought a roided up wrestler while he had a torn cartilage in his ribs and showed the heart of a champ..ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??

  19. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 6:37 pm

    Thank God…I was beginning to think we’d never hear some rational discussion about GSP’s move to 185. This is the first time where I’ve heard Rush throw some cold water on the idea and I’m glad.

    “I have a lot to lose” – and he’s right. He is the biggest, baddest thing @ 170, he’s phenomenally popular, he’s making a ton of money and he’s the poster boy for The UFC, why move up to 185 – permanently? Why put all that on the line? Anderson Silva is in no way, being asked to put as much or perhaps even anything, on the line.

    I, like many fans, would love to see GSP fight Anderson, but it’s too early in his career to make the move up; if ever. I personally feel he is too small for that division, even with size on. Making this move, predicated on the desire to see one fight and then roll the dice and see what happens with the rest of the division, is not only stupid, it’s an extremely bad business move. And if we know one thing about Georges, he’s not stupid and he doesn’t come across as a bad business man; his comments here, prove as much.

    The Super-Fight as Bust – and how many times have we sat around waiting for the “dream” match-up, only to have it be either a snooze fest or have it be over too quickly; not all super-fights payoff as advertised / hyped. Would we have to go a year or so, as GSP prepares for this fight? I personally don’t want to see one of my favorite fighters out of the game for that long, all on the hope that I “might” see a great / good fight. And what of Anderson? What is he to do while GSP prepares? Does he go unchallenged? And is this fair to the 185 division? What if Anderson fought and lost the belt, before GSP had a shot at him? What would the point have been?

    If this is going to happen – then it needs to happen @ a catch weight (178 lbs, lets say) and it should be a non-title fight; 5 rounds. If people really want to see them fight, then let them fight @ a catch and without all the ramifications, drama, wait time, preparation …etc.

    Screw this fight (right now) @ 185 for matters of pragmatism.

  20. Profile photo of joo44

    joo44

    March 5, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    well maybe i know too many GSP fan boys but that’s the type of feeling i get when the debate gets started these people actually wholeheartedly believe GSP would absolutely DOMINATE silva

  21. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    @ riddle

    I agree with your comments about pressure, but I don’t think he’s conceding a loss (in his head) or that he’s afraid of Anderson. What GSP is worried about right now is his career and the millions he’s making. I don’t blame him for that.

    He can prep for the fight and Anderson would be stupid to take him lightly. I would personally give GSP a 30 to 40 % chance of victory; not great. I think the real problem is just the division and he must be aware of that, it’s just too big. If we take a look at what Mark Munoz did to CB the other night and CB is a great wrestler and fighter, he got killed. I don’t see how GSP would have done any better (at weight), but then again, I’m not sure how Anderson himself is going to fair against MM. That could be an interesting question unto itself.

    The man is too small for 185 and he’s (probably) too big for 155; he’s the perfect 170. I say leave him @ 170, but fear has nothing to do with it. It’s all about business and being smart. He’s the most consistent and bankable fighter the division has ever seen. He is the most dominant 170 of all time. That and his legacy (which is important to GSP) should not and I doubt will be trifled with, for the sake of Dana White’s amusement(s).

  22. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    @ Kings

    Anderson has demonstrated that he’s afraid to “fight” fighters in his own division and only seems to have guts in testing the 205 waters against “select” pigeons he can kill.

    GSP, on the other hand, has gone out and “fought” everyone and everything, they’ve put in front of him.

    When Anderson starts accepting any fight that they offer him and showing up to fight…then I’ll start giving him more credit. He’s an incredible stand-up fighter and a great ground fighter, but he is “not” the most courageous guy in the ring; come on. He played stay away from Damian Maia for five rounds, because he was “terrified” of Damian Maia for five rounds. He has a whole list of people he won’t fight, because they’re “friends”, I’ve never heard GSP say that. I look at a guy like Shogun and he doesn’t say it. To me, saying you won’t fight someone because they are either friend or team-mate, is an excuse or out, to avoid a fight and Anderson has used it.

    Before we start throw bails of glory at Anderson and building him into a myth, let him clean out his division (which he has not done, I certainly want to see him fight Munoz) and let him move up to 205 and challenge the winner of Rua v. Jones or both.

    Until then – Anderson is a great, great fighter, with some things still left to prove. As it stands right now, I’m left with the impression that most of MMA and all of Anderson’s fans just want to cede every fight to him; all the way from 185 to (probably) HW; Anderson would beat Cain, Lesnar, Mir, Barry, Cro Cop, Nogueira and JDS. Oh, hold on, he can’t / wouldn’t fight Nogueira or JDS (or Machida @ 205 ), because they are “friends”. We shall leave aside the victories that he’d have over Overeem, Big Foot, Fedor etc. as they are not in The UFC.

  23. Profile photo of Riddle-jitsu

    Riddle-jitsu

    March 5, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Yeah but if thats all good and true but he should stop talking about his legacy in my oppinion cause there will always be that tarnish of not fighting anderson.

    just like mayweather in my mind undoubtedly the greatest ever but without the win over pacman he will never recieve that nod.

    i know BJ penn would of fought anderson in a drop of a hat so you can have the greatest record best smile and biggest bank balance you want but for me BJ is the legacy im most fond of as he went out there and took it to the greatest fighters win lose or DRAW reguardless the size advantage

  24. Profile photo of 808scrappah

    808scrappah

    March 5, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    hyperbole…nahhh…thats why we have blue-ray.

  25. Profile photo of mrmanuelhung

    mrmanuelhung

    March 5, 2011 at 9:02 pm

    thats exactly what i was goin to say about silva not stepping up to fight heavyweights! you just cant argue with silva fanboys

  26. Profile photo of mrmanuelhung

    mrmanuelhung

    March 5, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    no im not entertained at all

  27. Profile photo of BigNog22

    BigNog22

    March 5, 2011 at 9:04 pm

    i can’t already hear the hater saying: he’s a pussy, a coward. But let face it,by moving up is risking to f-up his body, his legacy. so why he should make that decision by instinct or because the “fans” want it .GSP is a bright guy, who use his reason,that why he’s my favorite fighter.

  28. Profile photo of GeorgeRuetiger

    GeorgeRuetiger

    March 5, 2011 at 9:18 pm

    If the fight happens, mark my words, I’ve been saying it for three years, GSP will beat Silva.

  29. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 5, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    What I want to know is where did Andersons bold aspirations of fighting LHW and even HW go!!! Not long ago he was talking about a fight with Frank Mir, then suddenly he says he is staying at Middleweight. My personal theory, though it may be unfair to Anderson, because he has beaten TOUGH competition in spectacular fashion, is that….

    1) He trains with Machida on a daily basis, and then to see him get beaten the way he did against Shogun, put some hesitancy in his 205 plans.

    2) To get dominated by a big, strong, athletic wrestler at 185 in Chael Sonnen, probably made him wonder what would happen if he foughgt guys like Rashad, Phil Davis ect.

    I have Anderson #1 p4p, but at the same time, I can see him being beatin by guys that are the same size as him. I can’t say the same about GSP. Nobody in MMA his size seems like a threat to me. Part of it has to do with the style of each fighter, but honestly, if you look at what Chael did to Anderson, is it not fair to say a version of GSP with the same natural frame as Sonnen, would stand a GREAT chance.

  30. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 5, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    Co-siggn 100%. Just take a look at him standing next to a middleweight. Then take a look at Anderson standing next to a LHW.

  31. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 5, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    What about Anderson though? Should he not fight the top 205′ers? He can go up in weight way easier than GSP can, just based on their body types. When I picture GSP in the ring with AS, i just see a guy who is way bigger. When I picture AS in the ring with Shogun, shit, I think I’d say Anderson is bigger.

  32. Profile photo of codemaster

    codemaster

    March 5, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    I get the feeling that a lot of fans just want to see GSP lose…and will come up with any justification to try and make that loss happen. He’s a scaredy-cat is the most popular reason.

    Let Anderson Silva move up to LHW and take on Shogun or Bones Jones. Hell, let him even take on Rashad or Rampage. But he refuses to do that. Is Anderson a scaredy-cat too?

    BJ Penn has always challenged fighters out of his natural weight class which earned him a record of 16-7-2. Randy Couture crossed weight division which earned him a record of 19-10. Both of these fighters have won championships in two weight classes, but they have also lost a lot of fights–barely batting .500.

    Let’s say GSP makes the sacrifice and takes the risk–and goes up to MW to challenge the greatest UFC MW ever. Let’s say he wins. So what next? He can only look forward to one fight after another with every opponent being bigger than him. At GSPs age, this is not an attractive prospect. GSP still has some good years left in his career–and to basically ensure that all his future opponents would be bigger does not seem to be a smart move. What if GSP loses to AS, what does he do next?

    GSP gets very good pay, endorsements, and PPV revenue BECAUSE he is the champion. That all will go away quickly if he loses.

    What is the incentive to go up and potentially lose? The money? The glory? Pleasing the fans? Pleasing Anderson Silva–who won’t move weight divsions?

    Dana White has yapped away about this fight, but he has his own reasons for doing so–besides fan interest. He obviously has not seriously talked to GSP about this, but publicly has painted GSP into a corner–hoping to force GSP to bow to public pressure. I wish Dana would try that public blackmail on Anderson Silva–who DW claims is the P4P champion. If AS is the P4P champion, and you believe that to be true–then the onus is on the P4P champ to move–not GSP.

  33. Profile photo of codemaster

    codemaster

    March 5, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Please delete “–barely batting .500″ — my bad.

  34. Profile photo of LowkickDick

    LowkickDick

    March 5, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    If BJ had heart he would put in the work before the fight.

  35. Profile photo of flyingknee45

    flyingknee45

    March 5, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    Anderson Silva was clearly trying to get a submission in the chael sonnen fight thats why he got beat like down throughout the fight he could of stop those take downs but he was trying to land chael in a submission in honor of the nogerra brothers for the disrespect that Chael said to them. Thats why he came out to the fight in a Gi & held up his blackbelt.

    If he wanted to end the Sonnon fight early he could of with his stand up but he choose to get a submission. He stated this in an Interview

    He will stop Gsp,s take downs cuz hes going to use his power & size & keep it on the feet. GSP has no chance in hell with Silva

  36. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 11:17 pm

    @ Dray

    Well argued.

  37. Profile photo of GeorgeRuetiger

    GeorgeRuetiger

    March 5, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    You stated that you have Anderson as #1 p4p, and then proceeded to explain in much more detail how he isn’t your number one. In the same sentence no less. Saying he could get beaten by guys his own size = the exact opposite of what pound for pound means. There is as much logic in that as saying “My favourite green chair is red.”

  38. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 11:38 pm

    @ Riddle

    If GSP’s legacy is tarnished because he didn’t fight Silva, then surely Anderson’s legacy is tarnished because he never fought Shogun, Jones, Machida, Fedor and on and on.

    If GSP’s legacy is tarnished because he didn’t have one fight with an opponent not in his division, then surely every fighter in MMA must have a tarnished record, for we could find at least one fight that every fighter should have had or that we (that fans) would like to have seen, but failed to.

    For example – surely Chuck Liddell must have no legacy or an extremely tarnished legacy, because he never fought Machida or Jones and he never went to heavyweight and fought Cain, Lesnar or Carwin.

    As to BJ and his legacy: 3 – 3 & 1 in his last 7; and it’s probably more like 3 & 4, in his last 7; he’s 0 & 3 in his last title defenses or challenges and he was run out of his division by a smaller guy – Frankie Edgar.

    Penn has no legacy left. He has squandered it. There is nothing left to be fond of, except some old memories of when Penn was younger and hungrier and he sure isn’t hungry anymore. And if he doesn’t go back to 155, he’s finished; at best a gatekeeper.

  39. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 5, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    @ Code

    Great post. This argument should be copied and emailed to GSP and his management.

  40. Profile photo of Jamie Kennedy

    Jamie Kennedy

    March 6, 2011 at 12:01 am

    Codemaster – great points man. Exactly… if Dana is hailing Silva as the P4P King etc. then why is he forcefully (from what I can tell) trying to get GSP (a smaller guy) to move UP in weight. Surely it should be Anderson that moves up,if he is as good as everyone including Dana thinks, he is a great fighter don’t get me wrong. But it seems a bit backwards….

    And as WingChun said above what does it really prove?

    Besides apart from a fight with Okami and Sonnen both rematches btw, what is there left for him to accomplish @185lb? Plus, there is a wide array of intriguing match-ups for him at 205lb. If anyone should move up it should be Silva.

  41. Profile photo of ahhhhhhhhhhhh

    ahhhhhhhhhhhh

    March 6, 2011 at 12:02 am

    talk about naive flinygknee45, he stated in an interview that he waited for a submission so it must be true? ‘sif. He finally luckily sinked one in after 23 minutes and decided to brag about it to massage his ego

  42. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 12:57 am

    Lol yes that is true, but at the end of the day, none of what I said has resulted in him losing, which is the most important thing about p4p rankings, consistently winning against top oppenents, regardless of the styles. I can’t say is his fault that he has only faced a few guys that on paper are bad matchups for him. Sure he struggled with Chael, got taken down in the first round and controled by Hendo, was in danger against Lutter, but he still beat all of them, and finished all of them, in dramatic fashion.

  43. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 1:06 am

    Sad, but i fear it may be the truth. I’ve always regarded Penn as a special talent that can beat the best on any given night. To be honest though, I think he will be remembered more as one of those fighters that had all the potential in the world, but just couldn’t put it all together consistently (whether it be work ethic, mental pereparation, style ect)

    “he was run out of his division by a smaller guy – Frankie Edgat”

    That’s the hard truth, but I wouldn’t be so quick to write Penn off completely. When he said recently in an interview, that he is going to start taking guys down more often, I couldn’t help but imagine how that would play out against top LW’s. Something that sticks out in my mind though is how amazed I was when Penn had Frankie on his back and couldn’t do anything.

  44. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 1:20 am

    Co-sign all of that. Great points dude.

    It’s always the case with combat sports, half the people tune in to watch someone dominant lost, and the other half tune in to watch the dominance continue. As a fighter, I really don’t think the promoter or the fans opinions on who you should fight should factor into your career plans. I honestly think GSP just wants to keep training, and keep fighting the best WW’s the UFC has to offer.

    On a side note, as much as Dana White wants this to happen, I don’t even see the business sense in it. He has two young champions at WW and LHW (with a promising young challenger too), and an older champion at MW. So what happens if GSP moves up and beats Anderson? He stays at middleweight, and likely loses soon after that. What happens if Anderson beats GSP? He goes back to MW where there arn’t many fights left? I doubt it. He will probably be convinced to move up and fight Rua, Jones ect. anyway. Hmm its all speculation and far into the future but while Dana white tries to convince us that this will be “the pound for pound championship fight”, I’m just going to be content in seeing these guys fight the best the UFC has to offer them at their own size/weight.

  45. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 6, 2011 at 2:04 am

    @ Dray

    Just for the record – I’ve always respected Penn as a fighter. His talent is / was never the question. I can also state that I’ve never cared for him outside of the ring. I find him arrogant and egotistical. However, I’ve never allowed my bias to rule my assessment of him. When he moved down to 155 I was happy for him. Although I don’t like him, I know he’s a great fighter and would / was a great Champ.

    The beatings that he laid down there during his brief tenure, were impressive; to say the least. Regardless of whether or not I like him or not, I was more than happy with his performances and picked him in all of his fights, except the Edgar fights. :-) I knew two things about those fights, that he wasn’t going to take Edgar seriously (enough) and that he wouldn’t train properly for it; advantage Edgar.

    I keep getting back to one thing with BJ – it’s not the talent, it’s his heart, his head and his ego. When he went down to 155 and started dominating, the first thing he wanted to do was go back to 170 and fight Rush – stupid move. He then went back down to 155, got into “phenomenal” shape, pounded the crap out of two very good fighters and just assumed that he could continue on and no longer put in the same time of work and effort that got him those other victories – stupid move. And what allowed him to do that was his ego and his complaisance. He subsequently decided that the menu and training habits were more to his liking at 170 and has moved up – stupid move; despite the Hughes victory.

    At the end of the day – I’m just not left with the impression that Penn is prepared to put in the type of sacrifice that a GSP or Frankie Edgar are prepared to put it; it’s obvious. And it’s also the reason why his career is where it is, today; wearing sunglasses for interviews and giving them with a ho-hum attitude. He once called GSP a “front-runner”, which of course he is not. However, I’d say it of Penn. If he’s not winning or going to win, he just packs it in (mentally) and accepts whatever outcome.

    Solid Post and I appreciate your thoughts.

    Cheers,

    Wing Chun

  46. Profile photo of azzkika

    azzkika

    March 6, 2011 at 2:13 am

    Pacman would destroy Mayweather and that’s why they been ducking him. Probably waiting for Pacman to lose a little speed. Mayweather ducked Mosley until he was old too. The greatest fight the greatest in their prime and win. Mayweather is a great boxer, don’t get me wrong but he has dodged some fights he wasn’t sure of winning. Pacman has improved to a point way beyond anything we have ever seen IMO.

    watch his last fight back against Margharito. You see a blur of hands from pacman then the slow mo shows that blur was 6 or 7 punches hitting their mark every time time through a closed guard. Mayweather is nowhere near that level and never has been.

  47. Profile photo of azzkika

    azzkika

    March 6, 2011 at 2:20 am

    Penn may have more losses than some, but look at how tough a resume he has. No one elses resume comes close to Penns. Machida, GSP twice, Fitch, Edgar twice, Hughes 3 times (twice when Hughes was in his prime)just to name a few. He faded against Fitch but still had done enough to earn a draw against the 2nd best WW in the world and was giving up size and strength. GSP bigger, Machida bigger. Penn is top 10 p4p material despite his losses.

    Anyone who thinks he has squandered his legacy needs lobotomising, as he is a mma fighter who was prepared to take on the very best there is even those much bigger than him. If he went back to LW there would still only be one LW that can beat him and that is the amazingly talented Franki Edgar who is new breed of skill and cardio and well rounded genius.

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    azzkika

    March 6, 2011 at 2:22 am

    I’ll be telling mine he was a great striker but overrated just because he has some highlight reel finishes.

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    WingChun

    March 6, 2011 at 2:30 am

    @ Dray

    You raise a great point about “two young champions”. From a business point, this makes no sense. He has two very marketable and noteworthy fighters, here. If it’s played wrong, White and his hopes for this fight could end up not only ruining their respective careers, but possibly damage the divisions and the brand, in doing so. I’m not saying it will happen, but I am saying it could happen. We could sit here and concoct scenarios all day long, (by) where this hurts the brand and possibly leaves the real winner StrikeForce; strangely enough; for the weaker The UFC becomes in any one division, the stronger SF looks or becomes; take your pick. They can already make an “argument” that their HW division is better (overall) than The UFC’s; at least in the top three or four slots (overall).

    This fight has bad business move written all over it. Sure, it could bring in a lot of money, but it could be a Pyrrhic victory. Once the dust settled on the night, The UFC might find out that is was the worse off for it; beware of what you ask for and all that.

    I don’t know if this fight will ever happen. I know that I much even care. However, my view would be this – if GSP were to move up, fight and beat Anderson…then my advice to him, at that exact moment would be…RETIRE; spike the ball and walk off the field and say “that’s all folks”. He’d be a legend and myth. His wealth secured in endorsements, forever. And I’d laugh my ass off, if he did; bet Dana didn’t see that one coming.

    There are people at 185 he could kick the crap out of – Bisping, for example. He would have wins, but he would have equally as many, if not more losses and that is just not the way to go for GSP; career wise, financially wise and in particular, in terms of his much loved and chased “legacy”.

  50. Profile photo of SumHo

    SumHo

    March 6, 2011 at 2:48 am

    I think Silva should move down in weight to fight him. He already has the height and reach advantage. Make it equal out more in the weight department.

  51. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 3:17 am

    @ Azzkika

    I agree with the last thing you said there, Frankie Edgar deserves more credit for the outcome of those two title fights than BJ deserves discredit. However, it seems like after everyone of his losses, suddenly he is “in shape” and “mentally changed/stronger” and taking things more seriously. I could have sworn he was in “the best shape ever” when he fought GSP the second time.

    I respect Penn greatly for his willingness to take on any comer, but to play devils advocate a bit, that may be part of his problem. IMO if he wants to continue being dominant (which he has the ability to do) he should just pick a weight class, be focused, train hard, and fight.

    @ WingChun

    “At the end of the day – I’m just not left with the impression that Penn is prepared to put in the type of sacrifice that a GSP or Frankie Edgar are prepared to put it”

    I agree 100%. There’s always the possibility, but it doesn’t seem likely at this point.

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    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 3:31 am

    Also, I don’t know why I feel the need to mention this, but when I look at a fighter like Allistaire Overeem, that’s someone I admire. He used to be a bit of a douche, wasn’t exactly known as a guy with an amazing work ethic, had alot of talent, then one day he decided to get extremely focused, and go to the weight class he actually belongs at, and now he seems unstoppable (but still has alot to prove to people).

  53. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Ahaha, I agree if he wins, it wouldn’t only be funny if he retired, it would make a helluva lot of sense.

    But yea my view doesn’t concern this particular fight, it just concerns seeing GSP as a middleweight, which I can’t. He obviously wouldn’t want to go up, lose, then go back down, as he stated. Because 1) it messes him up physically, and 2) it would mess him up mentally (not comparing his mental fortitude to BJ Penn, but look at that situation, guy goes up loses goes back down is complacent goes back up ect ect.). I don’t think GSP would ever become complacent, but i just imagine he wouldn’t quite be in the same place mentally afterwards. And ofcourse if he wins, have fun trying to beat all the other big mofos at MW.

  54. Profile photo of AJY

    AJY

    March 6, 2011 at 4:33 am

    @wing chun, well I disagree with most of what you said, here goes:

    - Anderson has had a few crazy moments in the ring, running around clowning opponents stalling etc. I wouldn’t call that “fear”, but arrogance, ego or just toying with opponents seems more accurate. I don’t think he’s afraid to fight anyone they put in front of him.
    -Wether or not he has fought “pigeonsor cans in the

  55. Profile photo of AJY

    AJY

    March 6, 2011 at 4:53 am

    - in the 205 division, is up for debate, Forrest was a former champ so I guess that counts for something I suppose. But regardless, you make it sound like he picks his own fights, which is not true obvoiusly. IMO he would wreck anyone in any divison he could comfortably make weight for.
    - gsp is the champ he is contrctually obligated to fight anyone they put in front of him like everyone else. IMO gsp hasn’t really “fought” alot of guys, he fight pretty much the same, wrestling, takedown, gnp, peppered with a little standup only enough to set up the takedown tho. He is the evolution of a lineage of dominant athletic wrestlers in ufc: hughes, ortiz etc. He fights very safe and pedictable..he wins but its boring to me. Not letting hardy even throw a punch, or alves doesn’t even warrant calling him “gutsy” by any strech. Going for his opponents weakness, without once testing himself against their strength makes him a great winner, but not a great warrior.
    - I don’t remember gsp ever fighting someone from his own camp, correct me if I’m wrong.

  56. Profile photo of AJY

    AJY

    March 6, 2011 at 5:19 am

    @ wing chun.
    - I think I can shed some light on why GSP’s legacy may be tarnished if he doesn’t move up. I think people watch GSP fight the same fight everytime (see my above post). He is always in controll, always plays it safe, fights to his opponents weakness gets the win etc. His legacy is missing the wars, and hard fought battles other legends like liddell, wanderlei, coture and yes…penn :) have had. People want to see him tested or test himself basically.
    - Do you remember the words, Fitch used to describe fighting BJ ? He said ” to be a legend you have to beat one, and bj is a legend”. You cant be a legend without a legacy. I don’t remember anyone referring to fighting gsp as beating a legend, not yet any way. I can’t list all the great fighters and analysts who would vouch for bj’s status as an all time great but you get the picture I’m sure. Going by statistics and records is a halfbaked way to measure a fighters worth btw. It’s bigger than that, there is more to making a legend than the win and loss column, how you did it matters too. Liddell is 21-8. coture is 19-10 these fighters are woth more than thier records and so is penn.

  57. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 9:22 am

    You have a point, but really the only difference between Anderson and GSP is they haev different strengths. You don’t see Anderson following Damien Maia or Thales Leites to the ground, you see him trying to use his strength (striking) against his oppenents. It just so happens that GSP’s stregth is wrestling/grappling, and he uses it. Standup fights just happen to be more exciting to most MMA fans, thats all it is.

  58. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Sorry MMA does not work how you think it does. Sonnen dominated Silva, Maia tooled Chael, Silva beat Maia ect ect. And though Forrest did beat Shogun, considering the circumstances, I think the fact you brought that up is a bit disingenuous. I doubt if you had a large sum of money and had to wager it on a Shogun vs Forrest fight in this present day, you’d put that money on Forrest.

  59. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 6, 2011 at 11:56 am

    @ Corey

    He most certainly stayed away from Damian Maia and he didn’t want anything to do with Thales Leites; that’s just empirical observation and conclusion, based on facts; not personal. Don’t mistake what I’m saying. I know he is an amazing fighter. I am a fan. However, he has chosen to go into fights, where he had a major disadvantage on the ground and avoid engaging the fighter; for fear of going to the ground. That, is my large or larger, point. GSP has just gone in their and fought and “exploited” his opponents disadvantages; there is a difference. The one fails to engage and the other engages.

    The difference? – GSP’s “transitory” properties. AS is a great fighter on his feet and on the ground, but he is not a strong wrestler and that is the “transitory” skill; moving from stand-up, to ground. GSP is a master of it. GSP’s master of the transitory, enables him to do what Anderson cannot do, which is determine the “placement” of the fight; Sonnen proved that, when Anderson couldn’t stop, not the bigger wrestler, but rather, the more dominant, skilled and powerful wrestler. GSP has always had that advantage in his fights. Subsequently, he has never had a concern as to where the fight ended up. Any hesitancy on his behalf, as to where a fight might end up, should be put down to choice / preference, rather than inability to dictate. Silva, would not be able to declare such a credential; Silva’s transitory game is suspect, to say the least; at least since the Sonnen fight.

    It is this reason and this reason alone, GSP’s ability to determine if a fight will stand or fall, is the singular reason as to why his match-up against Silva is even remotely interesting or even plausible. Without that game, GSP would stand no chance against The Spider. With it? He stands a good chance.

    Cheers,

    Wing Chun

  60. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 6, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    @ AJY

    You are free to disagree. Most certainly to do so, if you have a well reasoned argument. However, I stick with my original contention.

    Respectfully (in terms of your MMA acumen),

    Wing Chun

  61. Profile photo of dray12

    dray12

    March 6, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    @ Corey

    I agree with your take on the Thales and Damien fights, but when you say “If GSP was a natural Middleweight, h would never beat Anderson or Belfort”, i have to disagree. If a guy completely dominates his own natural weight class, winning essentially every second of every round of every fight in recent history, what makes you think he wouldn’t do the same at a different weight class, if that was his natural weight? The only thing I could chalk that up to is stiffer competition, or tougher stylistic matchups. IMO, the WW division and GSPs opponents are probably the toughest in any weight class, and GSP has faced guys with a vast variety of styles, while the outcome has been the same every time; complete domination. Anderson, as talented as he is, has shown he has a glaring weakness, and a style that causes him problems. It is impressive that he has still won all these affairs, but IMO it seems that sooner or later he could likely be beat by one of these style fighters (wrestlers), based on what I’ve seen out of him. GSP on the other hand, seems untouchable. The only person I see beating him is a bigger stronger fighter. And as WingChun mentioned above, GSPs transitory game it what makes him the fighter he is. What we credit that to is unknown. Is it a talent in itself? Hard work? Game plan? Probably a mixture of all three. Whereas we see fighters who are so blatantly gifted and talented athletically or technically (like Anderson), and deem them “the best”. I’m not questioning Andersons dedication, work ethic, smarts or ability to game plan, but I just believe that the thing that separates GSP from other top fighters is his ability to push himself harder, and live smarter than anyone else out there. While thats not as tangible as say Anderson’s insane stand up skills, or dangerous guard, I think it counts for a lot.

  62. Profile photo of Rane

    Rane

    March 7, 2011 at 4:18 am

    @ WingChun

    Anderson is afraid to fight Wing Chung fighters because they are all over the movies!

  63. Profile photo of Rane

    Rane

    March 7, 2011 at 4:21 am

    GSP is a smart man… DUCKING A. Silva is the best solution.

  64. Profile photo of mma420

    mma420

    March 7, 2011 at 4:27 am

    wtf you get AS having 40-60lbs on GSP ? AS walks around at 215 and GSP 197 get your facts straight or don’t post

  65. Profile photo of Wanderlouie

    Wanderlouie

    March 7, 2011 at 6:55 am

    he can’t be compared to silva? thats funny. but ur opinion so i wont argue that.

    what i will argue is that retarded ass quote u seem to be jerking off to.
    1. winning counts
    2. Anderson silva LITERALLY ran from demian maia to avoid being taken down to avoid his strengths… ive never seen gsp run.

    learn ur shit before you talk kid. theres a lot more to being a real mixed martial artist than a couple of highlight knockouts.

  66. Profile photo of azzkika

    azzkika

    March 7, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    When did GSP challenge Silva years ago? Silva said he would go down to WW to challenge GSP Corey. Your version of history is wrong. It is the fans that keep asking for this fight not GSP. Silva is scared by your logic sonce he didn’t back up his statement and go challenge GSP. Really Silva should be fighting Rua or Jon Jones or even HWs he is so big. Silva is the one who is really ducking challenges IMO.

  67. Profile photo of WingChun

    WingChun

    March 8, 2011 at 12:03 am

    @ Rane

    If that’s a joke – it makes no sense.

  68. Profile photo of SumHo

    SumHo

    March 8, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    I’m not sure why this was weaked seven times, but it makes sense: it will take more effort for GSP to move up in weight to equal out to Silva and he has a smaller frame. If Silva is not allowed to walk in there at 220lbs plus on fight day, it would be fairer in my book, and the playing field in terms of weight/size evened out, taking into consideration the cut.

  69. Profile photo of mrmanuelhung

    mrmanuelhung

    March 11, 2011 at 3:03 am

    learn how the human body works then post. im sure you’ve come across this in your martial arts training. and by martial arts training i mean sitting on your moms couch eating mcdonalds all day and arguing with people on the internet

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