September 20, 2010 at 5:11 pm
The answer to the weight problem is easy really, weigh them 30min before the fight.
Scoring system should just be like in Pride, it was perfect. Damage and trying to finish wins you the fight, period, no round based scoring at all. Its a fight not a match.
September 20, 2010 at 5:25 pm
It’s that intellectual thinking that has made him the best. His locker room discussion with Overeem (and I’m sure all other fighters) made me understand what he has over other refs. He told Overeem that if he gets in trouble he’s gonna start telling him to move and improve his position. He said that as long as you are intuitively aware and trying to better the situation, he would not stop the fight. However, once you stop “thinking” and just cover up….it’s done.
He knows what it means and requires to be in those positions…..therefore, he knows when a fighter is truly in trouble and truly hurt. Other refs look through fans-eyes and see one guy swinging away from the guard and they step in because it “looks” like the guy on bottom is getting beaten up. May not always be the case and knowing the difference makes it a fair fight.
September 20, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Interesting to hear Big John say something other than “let’s get it on!”
I don’t think cutting weight is a problem/danger, it’s cutting too much weight. But this is really a form of over-training, and I don’t think you’ll be able to stop fighters doing it any more than you can stop them from under training.
I like the idea of refs being required to experience various aspects of MMA. But on some headgear and take a few shots. But can anyone see this current crop of refs doing that, other than Big John and maybe Herb Dean?
The only way to make that happen would be to train ex-fighters as refs. While I could see this working in a few cases, I think the thing that makes you a good fighter is probably a lot different than what makes you a good ref.
September 20, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Doh, should have been “put on some headgear”. Must proof read
September 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Let me punch you in the face so that you know what fighters go through…
September 20, 2010 at 7:43 pm
I think you missed his point about the weight issue. He is discussing the negative impact that cutting weight has on the fighters. Implementing yet another weigh-in before the fight would give the fighter zero time to properly rehydrate, thus making it very dangerous for them to perform.
September 20, 2010 at 8:15 pm
If the weigh ins were 30 mins before the fight then fighters wouldn’t be able to dehydrate themselves so they can balloon back up to enter the fight at 20 pounds over the weight class limit. They’d have to fight in their natural weight class and find some other facet to exploit.
September 20, 2010 at 8:47 pm
I think the point he was trying to make is make an additional weigh in on fight day – effectively eliminating weight cutting.
September 20, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Yea, I understand that, but that is just part of the game… There will never be a way to eliminate weight cutting. Some guys are naturally over the weight limit, but still should be fighting in that weight class. In the heavyweight division for instance, you have guys that have to cut to make 265lbs. These guys have no division if not for weight cutting. Then you have guys that put on extra weight during their time off, they need to cut that weight to be in their best physical form, but it is still hard on their bodies. I am not sure if you guys are athletes or not, but weight cutting is going to happen no matter what when there are division involved.
September 20, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Except for heavyweights, is there a valid reason why a fighter would have to cut over 15 pounds to make max weight allowed for that weight class instead of just fighting in the next weight class up?
September 20, 2010 at 10:19 pm
I agree that we should go back to prides way of scoring fights but the solution to the weight cutting is more weight classes look fighters arnt stupid they know that losing too much weight will hurt there performance just some of them have natural weights where there either gunna have to lose alot of weight or fight people much bigger than them + with more weight classes closer to each other we will have more fighters holding more than 1 title and a more legitimate way of determining p4p best’s
September 20, 2010 at 11:12 pm
I think you missed Krogans point about 30 min weigh in, its more to discourage people that cut vast amount of weight so they can be the biggest guys in their div. It would put fighters closer to their natural division. Such as Alves, AJ, GSP, Nate M just a few examples.
September 20, 2010 at 11:52 pm
Their is a super heavy weight div we just dont see it anymore.
September 20, 2010 at 11:54 pm
GSP dont cut that much weight. He’s bigger than a few WW’s, but not by much, and there’s plenty the same size or bigger. He just has a tremendous training regime that keeps him tip top
September 21, 2010 at 12:00 am
totally agree with weigh ins 30 minutes before fight. if you a natural 200lber you will soon adjust to walking round at 185, or 210lb adding 10lb from weight training. adjusting weight isnt that difficult nor will it detract too much from a fighters ability. they should employ a 3 strikes and you’re out rule for not making weight and for every 4lb over be docked 1 point from the fight and 15% of the purse. it would soon get fighters adjusting to their most natural weight which is alot healthier than cutting with massive fluid loss and fast rehydration.
September 21, 2010 at 4:47 am
Right, but again…. Why are you going to risk the fighters who are actually closer to the limit they are fighting at just to ensure a few over-sized fighters are not taking advantage of the system? Like I said before, there will always be a need for weight cutting. How much weight is being cut is a different story and I see that point. However, no matter how much they are cutting, they need sufficient time to rehydrate their bodies before fighting.
September 21, 2010 at 8:04 am
Joey’s right on this one. You will not stop them from cutting weight, and they will never do the weigh in’s on the day of the fight. And sure, there could be more weight classes later, but after what the guy said about how there would be more multiple weight class title holders, i think if the classes get too close together, then there should be a rule that you can only fight in one weight class, and if you change classes you have to stay there for at least a year. If there was another division every 5 pounds it’d be ridiculous if there was one guy, holding the title for every weight he can make, could be up to 4 belts. and then a bigger guy can come take his heaviest belt if he beats him. It’s just ridiculous, they don’t fight often enough to defend so many belts, or fight in that many divisions. If they want to stop fighters from cutting weight they should be measured by how much volume they take up, by displacing water or something. Then you’d still be able to make fighters fight guys roughly the same size as them. I thought that’s what Big John was getting at.
September 21, 2010 at 11:28 pm
“Draws are like kissing your sister”
September 22, 2010 at 2:10 am
these guys fight the best at their natural weight. its like frankie edgar, guy walks around at 155 – 157. These guys can obviously control how much they weigh. still have weigh ins the day before, but have them the day of as well. If the fighters don’t wanna fight at the natural weight, they’re making a mistake bc theyll underperform. if they want to change weight class, bulk up permanently. if the weight cut is taken out of the equation, the fighters will fight to their potential, and since they aren’t overtraining so much, their careers will last longer.
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